Mario Stucki: “Dimpora makes a membrane in a way no one else does”

Firstly, congratulations! Dimpora was recently awarded one of the five best Swiss start-ups at the Prix Strategis and first prize in the Smart Technology category at the Sports for Nature Challenge. What do such awards mean to you? 

Mario Stucki: Thank you. Awards are always a great sign of recognition. The Global Change Award and being accepted into the Fashion for Good network shortly after our founding were extremely important for us. You get recognized, the industry sees you, you can build a network. The Global Change Award has also brought in quite a bit of money. Prizes like the ISPO awards are important for acceptance in the industry [Dimpora was a winner in the fourth round of the 2022 ISPO Awards for a collaboration with Swiss company Snowlife, which used Dimpora’s membrane in its Capricorn DT Eco 3 Finger ski glove]. 

Your academic background is also important: Dimpora is a spin-off of the ETH Zurich, as is HeiQ. What part did your university play in the development of Dimpora? 

The research we were able to do there was really important. My professor, Wendelin Stark, also played a big part. He made sure that the results of the research were translated into products. Now ETH gives us a name to a certain extent, and of course, it’s the place where I met Anna Beltzung – my co-founder and our CTO at Dimpora – during our bachelor’s.

Which markets does Dimpora focus on?

We are currently focusing on the Western market, which includes Europe – where we produce and have our main customers at the moment – Northern Europe, North America, Australia and New Zealand.

The Asian market is also on our roadmap, and we’ve already made progress in this regard. However, the very nature of the Asian market demands a different approach. Essentially, to become widely accessible in Asia, producing there is mandatory. On the other hand, China has its particularities, and we are in discussions to land a customer that will open the doors to this market.

We plan to start producing in Taiwan, South Korea, Japan and Vietnam so that we can also supply large North American companies manufacturing there. Once we reach this milestone, we’ll automatically be in the market in Australia and New Zealand.

We have noticed that the idea of “Swiss Made” is significant in Asia, whereas functionality and price are the priorities in America.

Dimpora membrane is “Swiss Made”

The pandemic has shown that regional production also has its advantages…

We fully agree and are happy to continue our work in Europe and Switzerland. A foothold in Europe is essential, especially for the quick industrialization of innovative new products. We said from the beginning that 15 percent of our scaled production will stay in Europe and 85 percent in Asia.

However, the current reality of the market is that customers are used to Asian prices but want the advantages from local producers, like fast delivery and low emissions, under a European nameplate. In the best case, this leads to higher prices; in the worst case to greenwashing or false labels. Then the claim “Made in Europe” could refer only to a small part at the end of the supply chain, while the origin of the rest remains in the dark.

Based on the increased demand, there is a very positive movement in the European market. Skilled textile jobs are being scaled again, whereas, for a long time, we had shifted this work to lower-cost countries and thereby experienced a brain drain from which we are catching up now, slowly.

So there will be no Swiss Made Dimpora membrane in the future?

Our membrane is Swiss Made! Our roots, our headquarter, and all of our development are in Switzerland, and as I said, we will keep it that way in the future.

Regarding the laminates, it depends on what the customer wants. We can buy fabrics that are “Made in Europe.” But the degree to which this is desired and accepted by our customers is an individual discussion that must be held with each brand.

Dimpora porous membrane made in a way “that no one else does”

Looking back to the beginnings: In 2019, you founded Dimpora to develop a sustainable membrane for outdoor clothing. Your solution is a microporous membrane that you produce without the use of PFAS and solvents. You talk about a “radically redesigned membrane solution.” How does your method work, and what is radical about it?

We make a membrane in a way that no one else does. We can use different materials such as recyclables, biobased and/or biodegradables to make porous membranes. That’s what’s radically new about us. 

So far, there are four ways to make membranes for outdoor clothing: One is the nonporous, hydrophilic membranes using a monolith. Sympatex or Dermizax do that, for example. Then there are porous membranes that are made by stretching them biaxially. Gore-Tex and XPore work in this way.

There is also porous phase inversion (also called coagulated membranes) where the membrane is inserted into a water bath and solvents create the holes.

The most recent method before ours has been the electrospinning process, which The North Face uses with Futurelight.

We, on the other hand, do it with little rocks: We insert mineral particles into the polymer, create a film out of this mixture and then wash out the rocks to open up the pores. In the past, this process was based on solvents, too, but today we can do it solvent-free, which also reduces the CO2 impact of our membranes significantly. This process gives us access to a much wider variety of polymers. All the other processes mentioned need a certain basic material prerequisite to get the pores in. 

What does working with you look like from a brand’s point of view? 

That depends on the brand: When the brand has limited internal resources, we support specific order quantities (from 300 to 350 meters). Then we offer our standard products and always support them with quality control, even up to the production of the garment with our network of partners.

For medium-sized companies with R&D departments, we offer the membrane for specially designed laminates. We sell naked membranes and combine them with the desired fabric. Before the approved laminate goes into larger orders, there is a 20-meter test lamination to guarantee optimal quality. With these projects, brands access different price points because orders are larger.

Custom-made products are for bigger brands that, for example, want a membrane that is recyclable and see our technology as the way to achieve this. With them, we do a multi-year project with a significant contribution from our brand partners. We do sample tests and define performance levels and what standards should be measured. Afterward, brands get one to two seasons of preferred access for the specific product.

Dimpora is working with the biggest sustainable outdoor brands in the world.

Which brands are you currently working with?

None of these JDAs (joint development agreements) are public or only to investors at the moment. But what I can say is: They are the biggest sustainable outdoor brands in the world.

Are there any desired partners or industries?

It is important to us that we have the same mindset as our partners, which means that we do not compromise on either sustainability or performance. 

It would certainly be exciting to include Sports in general, not focusing solely on the Outdoors. Fashion is also exciting, and there are interested parties. In the second step, Workwear and Protective Wear are an interesting challenge because the material flows are more controlled there. This makes circularity achievable more quickly.

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Let’s get back to your membrane: It is waterproof and windproof, breathable, PFAS-free, biodegradable and recyclable, depending on the raw material. Sounds like the industry’s long-sought-after global formula. What’s the catch?

Availability and price. For example, our bio-based materials were difficult to source – some producers are start-ups themselves. Partly we had to learn things ourselves in terms of scaling. In the end, it often comes down to pricing, which is better with our new solvent-free process because we can do it at lower costs once we have the process scaled.

Our ultimate goal is to combine all these properties into one product and achieve a recyclable, biobased and biodegradable membrane. However, there are no clear requirements in the market for such claims to be backed by scientific standards. 

In the meantime, our current products are receiving a very positive response from brands, and we are happy that our customers see the potential of our technology. However, our efforts will truly make a difference when we see many other brands encouraged enough to embrace our mission and change things with us.

“We are not big fans of talking numbers without standards”

You say that your membrane does not compromise functionality. Do you have numbers on breathability or waterproofness?

Of course, we have numbers; we are scientists at our core! But we are not big fans of talking numbers without standards because people often don’t understand these standards.

In terms of breathability, our membranes have high breathability values due to their open porosity. The problem with MVTR is that hydrophilic membranes are often measured at 40°C with direct water contact – absolute nonsense when it comes to how things really behave. That’s why I don’t want to give any figures on that in a public interview.

We are happy to discuss numbers with interested partners. It’s a bit simpler for the water column. There we are aiming for a minimum of 10 meters right now. We also have membranes with 35 meters because we can adjust the pore size. Or we could go down to 5 meters and increase breathability. But at the moment, we are sticking to a minimum of 10 because we see that 10,000 mm is a magic limit for many.

Among membrane manufacturers, there are many suppliers of sustainable materials, such as Sympatex or, more recently, the UK company Amphico. What is your USP?

If I have to boil it down to one thing, it’s versatility, especially in relation to the other materials. Amphico, for example, focuses more on microporous fabrics with superhydrophobic properties. We are in contact with them to see if we could make a membrane out of it.

We can score points with such cooperations: We can convert polymers that already exist as materials into membranes. Technologically, we don’t see anyone else who can do that.

Dimpora is an ingredient brand and won’t offer white-label products

What kind of strategy do you rely on in sales?

We are an ingredient brand, we don’t offer white-label products. We see the value not only in our membrane but also in our story and our approach to communicating openly, to show our process, to show potential for improvement and to educate the consumer on what high-tech they are wearing. We believe that this contributes to the joy in a garment.

Earlier this year, the EU banned another PFAS group. Bluesign and Oeko Tex announced that they will soon stop certifying products that contain PFAS. And the ZDHC has put all PFAS on its list of banned chemicals. Are these measures sufficient?

These measures are very good and urgently required. We will have to make sure that we as a society don’t let the industry foist too many exemptions on us because big established players have used their lobbying power. We should take now the chance to push innovation and think of alternatives. Whether these measures are enough…? Probably not. We need to propose such good solutions that there are no more counterarguments.

Eva Karlsson from Houdini recently said, in the context of a circular economy, that growth is much more than money. But for a start-up, money is often essential to be able to grow. How have you funded Dimpora so far?

We were lucky to win many grants and prize money until we got investors. This year we are looking for investors again. 

What are your goals for the next four years?

Our goals are to first raise money and successfully scale in Asia to reduce our production prices. We also want to create access to the international supply chain for American customers. With this, we will scale our revenues and the team internationally to serve customers all over the planet with the next generation of waterproof breathable membranes.